In this episode of the Conversation, Cannabis & Christianity podcast, host Miguel Torrez interviews Tracey Tee, founder of Moms on Mushrooms (MOM). Tracey shares her powerful journey from co-creating the cult hit comedy show The Pump and Dump Show to discovering the healing power of psilocybin during the pandemic. Facing the loss of her business and a period of deep personal and spiritual reflection, she turned to microdosing mushrooms as a tool for self-discovery, emotional healing, and reclaiming her identity.
Now, through MOM, she fosters a supportive community for mothers to explore psychedelic healing, mental health, and personal transformation. The conversation also explores overcoming the stigma of plant medicine, the evolving role of women in psychedelic wellness, and how embracing change can lead to deeper spiritual growth.
Read Transcript
[00:00:00] Miguel Torrez: All right, this is the Conversation Cannabis and Christianity podcast. My name is Miguel Torres, and I'm your host, and our special guest is Tracey Tee. Tracey Tee has been actively involved in the momosphere for over 10 years. First co creating and sharing in the nationally, excuse me, nationally touring cult hit comedy show for moms, The Pump and Dump Show, while simultaneously co producing Band of Mothers podcast and serving as co founder and CEO of the Pump and Dump Show's umbrella band, Band of Mothers Media.
During the pandemic and during her own journey with psilocybin, Tracey began to feel called to support moms in a deeper and more meaningful way. In 2002, she launched an online community in digital microdosing courses created exclusively for moms called MOM. which stands for Moms on Mushrooms. Tracey's goal is to bring moms together through the sacred use of plant medicine for a shared journey of personal growth and healing.
Tracey weaves in a sacred facilitator approach into the MOM ethos calling on the support of the sacred feminine and sacred mother earth to connect women back to themselves through prayer, herbology, grounding, nature, and of course plant medicine. Her unique journey of reproductive health issues and fertility, a hysterectomy, and early menopause provides a unique and very deep level of compassion for mothers.
This compassion and understanding coupled with a lifetime of learning about women's health and wellness allows her to hold space for moms with health, birth, and womb trauma, while also offering practical tips for overwhelmed and busy moms to simply feel better in their bodies and embrace a more sustainable and natural approach to physical and spiritual healing.
Since its launch in March of 2022, Mom has been featured on NPR twice, Good Morning America, Today Show, Piers Morgan, Rolling Stone Magazine, Fox News, CBS Saturday Morning, NBC News, Romper Magazine, Cafe Mom, London Times, and The Guardian. And yes, Tracey did appear on Dr. Phil to defend the right to heal through microdosing.
Tracey has been spoken, has spoken on panels for Rocky Mountain PBS, TAM Integration, Microdosing Collective, and was invited and was an invited speaker at the Historic MAPS Psychedelic Science 2023 Conference in Denver. Tracey lives in Denver, Colorado with her husband of 21 years, our rescue Chewini, and their miracle daughter who is 12 years old.
How you doing, Tracey? I'm good, thank you. Thank you very much for accepting the invitation too.
[00:02:40] Tracey Tee: Oh, it's my pleasure. I'm always happy to have good conversation.
[00:02:45] Miguel Torrez: Right on. Right on. So, you know, you've had a, I I, I checked out some of your profile stuff and you're a third generation entrepreneur. Yeah. And you had, you had a lot of success.
You had a lot of success with entertainment. Mm-hmm . And then as I was just reading, there was a shift. And I can imagine some people in your life relationships may have been surprised by that shift and, and, uh, usually, you know, the pandemic was something that I think a lot of people change through, you know, a lot of people change through the pandemic, that time of isolation and normalcy being totally changed and a lot of things are going on in our lives without that kind of recognition.
You know, we, we, we're, we're going through day to day stuff. These things are happening. We're, we're living them out. And then when there's a pause and we're forced to pause and sit down or so figured to be maybe literally sit down and look at things for what they are from a different perspective. And what was my 1st question is, what was going on inside of you and around you when you chose to commit to your project, the moms on mushrooms project.
[00:04:12] Tracey Tee: Mm. Yeah. Thank you for asking that. I, um, I'm definitely, I'm almost cliche. I'm definitely a 2020 awakener. I, um, I was, I was in that group of people that in that pause, um, was forced and in a lot of, um, You know, really bad things happening. The loss of my entertainment business. You know, when the lockdowns happened, we watched an almost 10 year old company just slipped through our fingers like water with, you know, while everyone else is getting PPEs, the entire entertainment industry was just left out to dry and it was devastating.
And anyone who owns their own business knows that, um yeah. a business that you own that you've cultivated by yourself is very much like another child. So the grief of losing that was palpable and a huge. Moment to look myself in the mirror and ask, like, who am I, what am I doing? What do I, what am I, what am I worth?
Um, and so flash forward to 20, late 2021, early 2022, I had begun working with plant medicine and kind of stumbled into it. I'd been on a spiritual path for many, many years as a lot of people, I think a lot of women are, I think the day I turned 40, I started asking all those existential questions. And which launched me on this, you know, this decade that I'm still in of seeking and learning and relearning.
Um, and inside that psychedelics would kind of pop up here and there. And I was always like, it always resonated with me, but I never really thought I could do it. I was raised, um, in the dare years. I was terrified of drugs. I never did drugs. I never did ecstasy in college, you know, in the nineties. I never did Coke when I was bartending in the two thousands in Los Angeles is never did drugs.
Yeah. Um, and so when I stumbled upon psychedelics and felt that transformational change, one thing that was almost immediately shown to me was how communal it is and how it's not supposed to be done. I don't think, especially mushrooms, I'll speak specifically to magic mushrooms because that's like my master teacher, really not supposed to be done in a vacuum.
And the more I worked with it, the more I, and the more I reflected back on the years prior to that moment. I could see how what we did in our comedy show, which was a comedy show for parents, mainly mothers, to bring them together through laughter. I was feeling this call to say that was then and now it's time to start talking and it's time to start like getting to the root of why we needed to get together and laugh in the first place.
Um,
[00:06:50] Miguel Torrez: I like that. That's cool. That's yeah.
[00:06:53] Tracey Tee: And, and
[00:06:54] Miguel Torrez: there's nothing, there's nothing cliche about it too. I heard you start off, there's nothing cliche about it.
[00:07:00] Tracey Tee: Thank you. And, and so, but then inside that I, there was just kind of these, these moments that we have with, you know, for me, it's God, you know, spirit, whatever you want to call it, where you're sort of being shown the next phase of your life.
Right. Um, some people say it's their Dharma, whatever, but I was really just, I was getting these messages of like, moms, you know, moms. And, you know, there's work, there's still work to be done in this space and look what you're doing and you can apply it. And, um, I, I remember going to see, get my tarot cards read once.
And the woman was like, I see a life coach in your future. And I'm like, what? No way. Like, ah, and then, um, in meditation one day, MOM moms on mushrooms just sort of dumped in my head and I sat up and I, I thought, well, that's genius. Like obviously someone's doing that, you know, like it's so obvious. And I went to the computer and looked up the URL and no one had it.
And that was when a real big conversation with God started for quite a few months where it was like, you're ready to do this. No, I'm not. Yes, you are. No, you're not. This is your calling. I don't want to do it. And it was a lot of on my, on my knees on the floor saying, no, like No, um, until it just became so apparent that I needed to say yes.
And the minute I said yes, um, everything just kind of took off like a rocket ship.
[00:08:23] Miguel Torrez: That is cool. That's very cool. That's very cool. You know, um, so it's not cliche. I say it's not cliche at all because that's that's that's taking something that you didn't ask for a restrictions that you didn't ask for.
You came out of it with an upward trajectory when the option to go downward with bitterness and sorrow and despair was there. It was optional. Oh, it was there. And
[00:08:50] Tracey Tee: I was, that was me for quite a while. Absolutely. Yeah, you're right. And I'm so grateful for it now. I mean, so much has changed since 2020 for all of us.
And I'm, I'm like, I don't even remember who I was, you know, it's such a different world. And I'm grateful that I got to, yeah, make those choices.
[00:09:09] Miguel Torrez: You know, when you say I, you know, it, that story really struck me because that's a very similar way that I came to have the name and concept for this podcast to I was, you know, I was during the, during the pandemic and, and.
I had a surgery and lost a lot of blood and had to have emergency surgery. And, and later on, I'm, you know, I'm recovering my blood's being, you know, my body's making more blood literally. And then all of a sudden, literally the name of the podcast just popped into my head. And, you know, it's like, I I'm, I'm getting ready to retire from the same, similar type of thing.
I was, I was getting ready to leave my career in the U S coast guard and retire. And. My wife and I are figuring out what we're going to do and how things are going to, how things, how we're going to do, you know, we made this decision and she, uh, she started a business and we flipped roles is what we did.
We flipped roles. So I'm, and at the same time, I really had this concept on my head too. And it did come, that was just fat. I mean, it was just, when you said that, yeah, it just came to my head. And when I thought of it, when I thought of mine too, I thought, Something similar to what you did. Surely somebody's already got that, but it didn't, it didn't go away.
You know what I mean? I don't know. I'm guessing it obviously didn't go away. Cause you said you spent months going, oh my gosh, I don't want to do this. And it is, it is a little different. I don't know for me coming out, like, like with this conversation, cannabis and Christianity podcast, it was like, you put the words cannabis and Christianity together and it's like, I, you know, some people's quills are going to go up and some people are going to be intrigued.
[00:10:43] Tracey Tee: Yeah.
[00:10:45] Miguel Torrez: And you said it took off like a rocket ship. What, you know, how did, how did, you know, obviously, I mean, how did you know?
[00:10:51] Tracey Tee: I didn't know. I know I knew nothing. I didn't know. I, I didn't know. I knew I didn't want to be, I, you know, being on stage as much as we were touring the country, it was amazing. And we, my best friend and business partner, we, we created it and cultivated it and, and toured this show when our, when our kids were tiny.
So I was, Raising a tiny human. I was traveling every week. Um, I was on stage in front of thousands of women. It was an unbelievable adventure. And then all of a sudden you kind of reach a point where, you know, I didn't even, it wasn't like we were on tour buses for two weeks straight and we weren't doing, you know, 160 shows in a row or anything, but like it's, that's a hard life.
It's
[00:11:34] Miguel Torrez: a
[00:11:34] Tracey Tee: hard life. And it's really hard when you're a mom and we would do the shows within 24 hours, you know, wake up, drive the kids to school, drive to the airport, get on a plane, fly to a show, work all afternoon, do the show ourselves, come home around midnight, 1am, take the first flight out 4am, 5am, fly back home, pick the kids up from school, go home, make dinner.
Like we were never gone. I mean, it's brutal. Um, And so I didn't want to be in front of people anymore. I didn't want the limelight. I was very happy. I had made peace with our success. I had made peace with the, the business crumbling and I was ready for the next thing. I just wanted to be quiet. I didn't want an Instagram account.
I didn't want pressures of social anything. Um, and so I started very small with just a group of women who I had kind of. I had kind of come out of the mushroom closet, um, with band of mothers before we shut down and, and said, like, this is me is I've been microdosing. It's helping everything. And the response was unbelievable, unbelievably positive.
And, um, I started having these conversations with women that were just like, tell me everything, you know, I mean, I'm so interested. I'm miserable. My husband's miserable. We've tried everything. And so that was kind of the beginning. So I just started with a group of those women and I was just going to, you know, teach some courses a few times a year and just keep it small.
And then after the, after the first three months I spent with this kind of. First cohort of women at the end on the last day, I was crying and they were crying. And I was like, I'm going to miss you guys so much. And thank you for everything. And I don't know what I'm gonna do without you. And they all stared back at me on zoom and said, well, what are you talking about?
We're not going anywhere. What do you have next? And that. In that moment, I was like, Oh, you're really doing this. And I started an Instagram account. And then my, that same best friend took my next course with me, um, got herself off Zoloft, you know, really alchemized a lot of stuff. And after she, and this is, you know, the love of my life, my best friend since the eighth grade, my business partner knows me inside and out.
And she, we finished the course. She was like, You gotta go bigger. We need a community. We need the place for moms. This is absolutely necessary. And she really pushed me to create our platform. And almost to the day when we launched our platform, NPR called for an interview, and the rest is history. And so I really, I really didn't Have it.
There wasn't much that I did except say yes. And that's all I can say. And, and I keep trying to, so I'm just not really attached to any of it. And, and the idea of like success and more like, oh, wow, this is actually what happens when you do what you're supposed to, what God tells you to do. I
[00:14:28] Miguel Torrez: understand that.
I understand the difference that you're trying to convey right there. I do. It's a, it's a difference in intent.
[00:14:36] Tracey Tee: It's a difference in intent. And I can, and I can say that actually being a performer and someone who was a theater major and, you know, and I noticed myself towards the end years of, um, of doing the show, how little I really needed applause.
I didn't, I was noticing in myself that like, I actually wasn't on stage for the attention. It's, I actually, I'm, I'm an introverted extrovert. I don't really love a lot of attention yet. Everyone thinks I'm like this big personality, which I am, but only when I feel really comfortable. So the, the dichotomy of that was starting to me become very curious to me.
And And then I really looked at like who I was when I was showing up on stage and how I was showing up in the show. And it was very performative. It was very like, I have to look a certain way. I have to be super pretty. I have to wear the right clothes and because I have to show everyone I'm this version of a mom,
[00:15:30] Miguel Torrez: the image,
[00:15:31] Tracey Tee: the image.
And, um, and that's not really who I am. And I would say that microdosing quickly for me, Started peeling back those layers real fast and was like, Nope, Nope, Nope. Like none of that is important. We got to get to the core of who you are. And, um, and that's where I try to stay.
[00:15:51] Miguel Torrez: That's cool. That's a very cool story, Tracey.
It's really cool story. So the stigma of mushrooms and, uh, family and friends and business partners, was that, was that sticky at all?
[00:16:03] Tracey Tee: Uh, yep. It's been a little sticky. Um, I would say it's, I would say it's been 2 percent sticky and 98%. Mind blowingly amazing right on
[00:16:12] Miguel Torrez: that's good. No, that's that's encouraging.
That's good.
[00:16:15] Tracey Tee: It is encouraging. I I really And again, I, I keep coming back to if you're, if you're really aligned with your heart and your purpose and you're, and you're doing it for the right reasons, I actually think most people resonate with that energy. And so like, hands down, most people have been just like, tell me more, Oh my gosh, what a service.
I wish I had this when I was, you know, a young mom or a mom when I was raising kids and just curious. Yes. Even if like. Like my mother, like, you know, we'll probably never take mushrooms. That's, I mean, I don't care. I mean, mushrooms aren't for everybody. So I don't, that's not my, that's not my message, but she's curious and she sees in me the growth and we can have an open dialogue.
And that is, that's beautiful. And so even if my work with psychedelics just opens people's hearts up to just have an, A more interested conversation and how the different ways that people can heal. I call that a win. And that actually happens. Way more than it doesn't. Um, I would say as a, as a woman and as a person, I've certainly changed a lot in the last four years.
And so as for all adults, friendships come and go and we go through phases. And so there's definitely been a dying off of like Tracey 1. 0 and now there's Tracey 2. 0 and That's hard and I think I've really deepened my spiritual beliefs and I'm, I'm very clear on what I'm aligned with now and what I'm not and my priorities.
And so that's just been kind of an evolution. Um, and the stigma or the pushback that I do get, I, I find that it comes from a place of just Good old fashioned misinformation slash fear and, um, if that person still in a fear state is at least open to hearing, like to asking questions, we can come to a place of understanding.
And if you're coming at me from a place of judgment or like, well, I know what's best, then I'm just never going to be able to talk to those people. You know, it's never going
[00:18:22] Miguel Torrez: to,
[00:18:22] Tracey Tee: that's not their path.
[00:18:23] Miguel Torrez: I understand. I understand completely. And, uh, that is really encouraging. That's really encouraging. You know, it, you know, you, the, the part where you said the, the Tracey 1.
0 and Tracey 2. 0,
[00:18:40] Miguel Torrez: I understand the concept of what you're saying and. It's, it's, it's fascinating to see sometimes when people come to these points in their lives and they don't accept the new direction, they continue to stay in the same direction and that actually, when I look at that, it's just kind of, there's some kind of wrong believing there about, about change and that person and what they're believing about it.
And. And it's a, it's a fascinating thing. It's, it's pretty cool. It's, it's very cool. Um, it's a very cool story. Cause I mean, just the fact that you said, you know, you're on stage, it's like, yeah, and the intent and these things, and it's encouraging to me and I'm sure to a lot of people to, um. Oh, wow. And you got me thinking about all kinds of stuff.
I gotta, I'll
[00:19:35] Tracey Tee: speak to your point about change. Cause I think that's a really, I think that's a really interesting point. I think a lot of people I'll just speak to like American Western Judeo Christian society have this concept that like you, you set your belief system and you decide what it is of like who you are and what you believe in.
And it's like this moment and like, that has to remain exactly the same until you
[00:20:01] Miguel Torrez: Right.
[00:20:02] Tracey Tee: And I just. I don't agree with that, like, at all. In fact, I think there is some sort of inversion there because the resistance to evolve and change and change your mind is the point of us being on this planet. You can still have your values and you can still believe in God or spirit or, you know, have core belief systems.
But inside that, I think we're expected to evolve and change our minds and, and admit when we were wrong or admit that we've changed. Like those are very humbling, open hearted things. And, and that's certainly what psychedelics I think actually helps a lot of people do because it softens the ego from talking and lets your heart actually join the chat.
But I think there's still this collective. idea that we're not allowed to do that. Like we just have to, we made it, we said who we were one time and that's how we have to be forever. And that's just a, I think it's a bummer. It's a bummer way to live.
[00:21:02] Miguel Torrez: It is. And I agree. I agree completely. Don't worry. And the Chihuahua with the Chihuahua.
I'm guessing that's the Chihuahua and a weenie, like a dachshund, right? Yes. That's what I figured when I read it the first time. I was like, that's cool. Um, but you're right. It is, it is sad to see in people, but it's also amazing to see. I don't know. Sometimes, you know, sometimes I can see too much of that in people and other times I can go, you know what, there's a lot of, there's a lot of the opposite too.
It depends on what I'm looking for too. Well, that's
[00:21:32] Tracey Tee: true.
[00:21:33] Miguel Torrez: But that, that, that, that, um, that ability to, to recognize that life is dynamic and not static. And that's, what's kind of, I think that's what people get like what you were describing right there. It's like this moment. It's got to stay this way, even though their own physical frame.
Is not staying that way,
[00:21:51] Tracey Tee: right? Yeah. I mean, it's like it's actually expressed in our human form. It's we change every single day. You're so right. Like it's mapped out for us.
[00:22:01] Miguel Torrez: So if that is happening, this is what this is. This is why I think of that type of, uh, and I think you'll understand this because you went to Hillsdale college.
We had, we had a little conversation about this before, before we hit record, you went to Hillsdale college and, uh, and, Okay. The Bible, the scriptures call that a stronghold, right? And whatever, however it's described, but I can see how it can be a stronghold because it is being held onto so tightly in someone's heart and mind that they are refusing to believe that anything else could be there, or an option, that is real.
And this is where the dynamic and the static, this is where the part where you said it's like a bummer it's like, man, it is, it is a life bummer to see people stay static. And not understand that it's supposed it is. It's not supposed to be. It is a dynamic life. We live.
[00:22:52] Tracey Tee: It's a beautifully dynamic life. We live and we are never, ever, ever done learning or even understanding.
Um, yeah. And to and to just, you know, especially. And to hold on to like your past as like the, the, the definition of who you are in this present moment is a bummer. You know, Hillsdale College, it's part of me. It's absolutely part of who I am. But the girl who went to college there is not even close to the woman.
Uh, who sits here now and I can appreciate and reflect and learn from who she was and what I was taught there. And I can apply it in certain things here. And I also have the, I also have the right to discard what no longer resonates. And that's the fun part, like, because I'm not the same and I don't, I don't have to be the same.
And it doesn't mean I'm falling back on anything. It just means I'm remaining curious as I walk forward.
[00:23:53] Miguel Torrez: And you use the word seeking and when I were in your in the bio that I read seeking and that's and that's the way I look at it too, is that you're seeking people are seeking. And I think people are always seeking.
[00:24:06] Tracey Tee: I would hope so.
[00:24:07] Miguel Torrez: Whether or not they recognize. The depth of which it reaches, and I think we sometimes don't even understand how, how much depth and meaning and value we have and worth in ourselves as a person. And that's, that's, that's a, that's a, it's a, it's a strange life sometimes, but it is the reason why I find the, the cannabis and the mushrooms to be intriguing is because I find it very odd.
When people from the pulpit start calling marijuana, the devil's lettuce and, and all this kind of stuff. And, and you, and I'm kind of like, I, I, you know, it, it's kind of, you know, I don't even really find it funny. I'm kind of like, Oh, it actually makes, it makes my quills go up. I'm just
[00:24:52] Tracey Tee: imagining a man standing in front, in like a suit in front of a bunch of people, like in all seriousness and saying the devil's lettuce.
Like that's funny to me.
[00:25:01] Miguel Torrez: And then usually I think they they intend to be like they get to get a giggle out of the congregation, you know and uh but at the same time i'm kind of like it just doesn't make sense when you think about when you think about it scripturally and You look at when I look at the scriptures and it's like okay creation This is a plant And then when you look at when you look at other parts of when I when I look at exodus like the the 10 plagues Like coming out it was the one plague that they could not duplicate was when?
moses and aaron turned I think it was It was dirt into lice or fleas. They created life out of dirt. And now that was when the magician said, this is the finger of God. So that right there tells, tells readers that, that Lucifer devil, whatever you want to call him, the enemy, whatever it is, cannot create life.
[00:25:50] Tracey Tee: So
[00:25:51] Miguel Torrez: if he cannot, if he cannot create life, then how is it that this plant belongs to him? How did he make this plan? And how did, and how did he make these mushrooms too? Because obviously there are a lot of things that. Align with the human body. Mm-hmm . From these, from these two plants, from these two organisms, right?
Mm-hmm . And, uh, and they come in abundance and they come in abundance. Mm-hmm . Like, you can get cannabinoids from other produce vegetation, but you can't get in an abundance like you can from the marijuana plant. There. There can be ways to get into meditation or into loss of ego, like you were saying, when you, when you, when it, it quiets the ego and, and mm-hmm
Brings you into your heart. Things can do that sometimes. You know, a lot of people can find those things, but they don't always work for people in those areas. And sometimes, you know, in the 21st century, you know, a lot of people are on prescription drugs with a lot of side effects. And I find marijuana and mushrooms to be part of creation, a part of creation.
[00:26:56] Tracey Tee: Yeah. Well, nature. I mean, if we, you know, I think one, one big thing that's happened is that we've forgotten that we, I think we live in Eden. I think we are, I think Eden is here. Like look around us. This earth is unbelievably beautiful and magical and abundant and resourceful and nature maps out for us everything really that we need to do.
It teaches us all our life lessons. It shows us Um, cycles and it provides everything, everything that we rely on in life, even if it's a computer starts with nature, there's no other way to say it. And we forgot that we are walking and we are communing with a living, breathing entity. We are, we are on the mother and.
So if you forget that, then it's easy to demonize things that don't align with you, because you're saying that they're not from, they're not from spirit, and they, they very much are. It is creation, like you're saying, and now, and, We were given free will so we can invert anything and do and have and that includes plant medicine so they can be used poorly or unsafely or for the wrong reasons.
And that's our personal choice. But I think when those of us who are working like from a heart space and who are saying, Oh, my gosh, like, Thank you, God, for these gifts to get me, to get me back closer to you, because I do think that's what they can do. You have to remember that you're walking on, you're like, we're surrounded by magic and miracles.
with every breath we take. So to, yeah, to, to, to demonize any of it. It doesn't make any sense.
[00:28:44] Miguel Torrez: You know, there's, there's something when you're saying that there was something that I remember hearing and it's bring heaven to earth. And that when I think of that stuff, that what you're saying sounds exactly like that.
It's because a lot of people, I think a lot of people in Christianity specifically, and I can understand it because when you look around and you start looking for the fallen part of earth, you can certainly see it
[00:29:06] Tracey Tee: a hundred percent,
[00:29:07] Miguel Torrez: but There's too many examples and and there's too many examples and sometimes I need to be reminded myself and some people remind me It's like oh, yeah, that's it, right.
That's right. Bring heaven to earth And when I think of I'm like when Jesus is saying I'm the manna that came from heaven down to you Down to you so you can have it too and share it And that's, and that's, that's bringing heaven to earth. Right. And his last, his last command was to love one another. And that's where it's just kind of like the concept, the concept, the concept that you shared was, was when I was like, wow, because I think that's what, uh, sometimes we think just doing good things and share goodness.
But when you think about it, if you, if you're a spiritual person, whatever the spiritual, whatever the, whatever the belief system is, bring heaven to earth and. That's a pretty, uh, it's a That's a solid I'll say like this. It's a solid foundation. It is and
[00:30:04] Tracey Tee: it's in it and it and it intersects with every just about every Spiritual quote unquote belief system, right?
Like just bringing heaven to earth, you know, I hear that and I think okay That means I live in gratitude that gives you know, that's Thank giving thanks for what I have that's cherishing and, and like loving everything that's around me. And yeah, there's many, many things that are fallen on this earth, but all by the hands of man, you know, trees didn't become trees aren't inherently evil.
You know, like I know what you mean, you know, like even petroleum isn't inherently evil. It's it's all there and it is given to us. So like what we decide to do with it, that's on us. But, but you can just come back to that heaven bringing heaven to earth concept by just saying, Oh my gosh, I am a literal walking miracle.
Like I am what a gift I have to be here and experience that, that my eyes can see blue sky and that my heart can hear birds singing and everything in between that I can hold a newborn baby in my arms. Like it's that I can eat. Enchiladas. Like, it's insane, the miracles that we can get every single day.
And, and I do think that, like, religion forgets that sometime. And that's just because it brings, we bring everything up into our minds, and we decide to make it dogmatic, and it has to follow these rules. When in fact, every Sunday should just be a party of like, Oh my gosh, we made it, we're alive together.
Thank you, God. Like, what else is there to talk about?
[00:31:41] Miguel Torrez: That's cool. That's cool. You know, it's a and that's it's an upward trajectory. And that's where it's I look at that. It's like, I think of it as like an upward trajectory. It's like, no, we're not supposed to be going downward. We're supposed to be going upward.
And that's a, that's a, I'm digging it. I'm digging it. I'm digging it. I'm digging it. And I also know that, uh, You've had a busy day and we're going to actually, you know what, let's do this first. Do you want to tell listeners what you have planned for, uh, for the future? If you want to do this, rather than 24 or whatever, whatever you want to share for, for, for, for mom,
[00:32:13] Tracey Tee: for moms on mushrooms.
Um, Ooh, what do we have planned? I think, you know, I, I really just want to keep growing our community. We have a private. Uh, community membership. That's all off social media. It's kind of like Facebook for moms on shrooms. Um, it's 2 a month. So really accessible to everyone except trolls, you know, um, and my vision is to just have more moms, whether you're curious about psychedelics and.
Not even ready to try anything or whether you've been an experienced psych or not, and you have wisdom to share that we can all just kind of come together and talk about and explore and be curious about psychedelics together in our space. We have three month courses that are really beautiful and, um, and really supportive, um, not to teach moms how to microdose, but more how to say, to unlearn what it means to quote, take medicine and, and create an intentional relationship with.
With mushrooms on a micro level and Understand that it's a co creation and that you're opting in on your change rather than being passive. Like we've been told, um, you know, taking an antidepressant. Well, I do think they're incredibly helpful for a lot of people in major distress. It is a passive thing.
You take it and you wait for your change with mushrooms. You take it and you say you are illuminated by what needs to change. And then you're asked very clearly to do it if you really want that to happen. And so we really work with moms for three months to, to create that container of intention and relationship, um, and igniting mom's intuition and discernment.
So you come back to you, taking your, your life into your own hands. And, um, You know, we have a beautiful kind of introductory micro dosing 101, uh, like bundle where you get a really amazing course that I wrote, you can read it at your own pace. I, I offer seminars several times a month just to answer questions.
So we really just try to meet moms where they're at. I think possibly in 2025 God willing dads on mushrooms, uh, will launch because dads want community too. And we're very aware of that. Um, And I think my, my ultimate vision for mom is that is that a million mothers stand behind the, um, the use of psychedelic medicine for better mental health, whatever psychedelic that is, and that a million mothers say, I'm not going to be deemed crazy or unsafe, that I'm using this an intentional way to be a better mother.
And this is what a mom on psychedelics looks like. And I think when a million moms can stand in unity for that. Anything can happen. I don't think there'll be war anymore. I think, you know, it'll become legalized in a, you know, responsible way. And, you know, and the, and the best thing that comes from that is that we raise happier kids because we're happy ourselves.
So that's kind of,
[00:35:16] Miguel Torrez: that's, you know, as, as you're, as you were talking, I was, I kept thinking about something you said and, and how it applies to raising kids because. Something and I've got a 13 year old, a 12 year old and a nine and a half year old and, um, and
there's a shift where you start to when they start to have that public life at school and stuff and. They start shifting from more of the, uh, I'll could just describe it as the heart because they're children they shift from the heart to the surface and the surface has to have these ways of daily living to fit it to fit in and
peeling that stuff back. Because it starts very early.
[00:36:18] Tracey Tee: It really does.
[00:36:19] Miguel Torrez: It starts very early.
[00:36:21] Tracey Tee: It's heartbreaking.
[00:36:22] Miguel Torrez: It can be. And this is what this is where this is where I think what you're doing is really cool. Because when you said, yeah, there's people said, I wish I had this when I was doing my during my parenting, because I think it would be a positive thing.
And I'll put it like this. I'm not against prescription drugs, either. I know some people have been helped by antidepressants and stuff like that. But I also know some people who have, uh, use them In the way that you described them where it's like, I'm too busy with the surface to look down there and deal with the things that are actually giving me all these symptoms and cues at the surface to deal with that.
I just want to take this pill and keep trucking and that that part. You know, I'm going through that with parenthood right now. Like how, you know, how do you teach the child that the surface and I'm not saying I'm not asking, but it's like, this is what as a parent is doing it. If you're paying attention to it, you're going, okay, I see a lot of surface stuff going on.
And I know that there's a lot more down there. I know that there were big dreams that they talked about. And they may, they may have been cartoonish, but still they were big. And I don't hear about them that much anymore. I'm hearing about all the, uh, All the static at the surface that that work because it is it is, uh, it's not labor if you want to call it labor.
If you want to call it work, I call it, um, you know, seeking.
[00:37:45] Tracey Tee: Yeah, and I think modeling, you know, um, I totally resonate. I mean, my bio needs to be updated. My daughter's 13 about to turn 14. So I am, I am, I know exactly what you're talking about. And she's a really. Beautiful, insightful kid who sometimes, you know, says these wise things and I'm just like, who are you, you know, she's really beautiful and she's still, you know, tempted by the ways of the world, right?
And she wants to just be a girl that goes to middle school and do these things. And as a parent, especially as a parent who I have, you know, I'm just. Walking a different path than a lot of people and to say, like, you know, I, I feel like I understand what's more important and we try to infuse that with her, but you got to let her just, you know, you got to let her walk her own path to, um, and so I, I've kind of, I always, when I feel that tension, I always come back to a story that, um, Ram Dass Um, and he was, uh, he used to tell, used to tell a lot about, um, Gandhi and he was, Gandhi was on, uh, getting on a train and he was supposed to go travel to some warring faction of like two tribes or I don't know that were, it was very, very dangerous area and he was going to go there to try to create harmony and peace.
And so he's getting on this train and this reporter comes up to him and says, do you have anything you'd um, and yeah, do you have a
My life is my message and That is all I can do, is just let my life be my message. And if I can model that the surface isn't as important than what's really deep, deep down, if I can somehow model that in my own way without being performative, without my ego coming in that I need to teach my daughter something, if I can just be it, she will learn.
She will see what she's supposed to see. And that's, I think that's all we can do and that all comes back to just living in your heart and being connected, you know, to spirit and from there, I don't have to worry about what I am or I'm not dogmatically shoving down her throat. I am just my message.
[00:40:06] Miguel Torrez: I agree.
I actually agree. You know, that is the, that is, that is the message. Your life, your life is a message.
[00:40:15] Tracey Tee: We are judged by the actions we take, you know, and the words that we speak. So.
[00:40:21] Miguel Torrez: That's cool. Use them wisely. Very cool, Tracey. Very cool. Okay. Hey, uh, I know. We're getting close to the end of the time. So, and, uh, as we were talking, you went to Hillsdale college, which is a small Christian school in Michigan.
And you're, you were, came there from Colorado. And, uh, so presumably. You were raised as a Christian. Okay. Now, how, you know, how I see this is where the change we just talked a lot about how you've changed since then
[00:40:58] Tracey Tee: in
[00:40:58] Miguel Torrez: every way. So let's do this one. Let's do this one. Let's cut to this one. Because what do you think about?
Because I, I imagine you just do, you do believe in an intelligent designer behind life. Yeah. And what do you think about? A life after this life. Usually when I pose this question to most guests, it's do you believe this life is a free ride? I obviously know you don't believe it's a free ride. Right? So, so I actually recognize that you recognize that about this life.
And then I asked the guest, do you meaning, do you think that there's a life after this life? And if you do, do you think there's any form of payment that's due upon death? Because I think that's what a lot of people think about. I think a lot of people think about that, especially as we hit these points in our life as we, we, we mature.
[00:41:51] Tracey Tee: Yeah. Um, okay. Uh, I'll back this up. Do I think there's life after life? Yes, I do. I really, I, that has taken me many, many years, but I believe, um, I don't think this is my first rodeo and I, I don't think it may be my last. I think we come, we are, are, we have a soul. That is the essence of spirit of God of creation.
And we are, the soul has, um, an opportunity to evolve. And I, this is, well, this is what I really, I think I've concluded in this moment. This is what I, how I view God, God is creation. We know that we have to have duality, right? We cannot have just one unchangeable energy because then nothing, everything is static.
So you have to have light with dark, you have to have good with good. with bad, however you want to define those. So that God creation can't even understand itself without experiencing itself, which is what we are, which is why we say we are made in the likeness of him. And so we are just, our souls are fragments.
Of the creator and the, this is where I'm still, it's like too much for my tiny P like brain to understand, but I think the, if you want to call it a game or the challenge or the process is to go through all of the opportunities to understand ourself, to know that I self, and when we. Finally, figure it out, we can come back to wholeness, which is one with source with one with God.
So I think it takes many lifetimes and adventures and lessons and mistakes and achievements to, to fully realize all of that. And that is why I don't think this is just one life and then we're done. And so to say that there's payment upon death, I also don't think. I think there's a, I think there's, um, consequences to your actions and, um, and that's what I, and I really do think karma is real.
I think you are, I think you're accountable for your choices that you make. And if you screwed up or you didn't get the lesson, you go back and you do it again in a different body with different circumstances until you learn it. And I've just read too many. Things, you know, whether it's past life regressions or near death experiences or epiphanies or enlightenments.
Everyone kind of says something similar to that, and I don't think God is this. Um, judgmental, you know, despot that is going to smite us for our sins. I think God wants us to learn how to be more like God. And so the only benevolent way you can do that is to give someone else another, to give someone another chance.
So at death, do you have a reckoning? Yeah, I do think you are accountable for your life that you lived. Um, are you punished for it in internal damnation? I don't think, I don't think so. I think you may come back and, and live a different life that may not be pleasant or have some unpleasant things happen to you, but it's always within the context of loving the idea that we are from source and.
When I look at life that way, it just makes it much easier for me to try to be a good person. Um, and also give myself grace and other people, grace for their mistakes and compassion for one another, because we're all just trying to learn this ultimate massive lesson. And it's not easy because we're human.
[00:45:34] Miguel Torrez: You know, I, there's something you said there where I was like, that is another profound thing that I think too many people Get mixed up with Santa Claus is that God is not somebody waiting to yeah I'm waiting. I'm just waiting to hit you over the head because I know I can see it already You just I just got it bang instead of he's saying no, he's very merciful He's very merciful and it's and that's that's the part that that I think too many people too many Christians in that that they get too many messages that that show the the lack of mercy And when really the new covenant is when I'm here, I'm taking what you said and I can just hear tones of the new covenant all through it.
So this is what I'm hearing. It's kind of like, because when you said, yeah, it's like, uh, you know, I don't think he's waiting to judge everybody. He's trying to, he's trying to help everybody. He's trying to provide the opportunities for people to change their minds. And this is what, when you're saying it, this is what I was thinking of.
It's like, it lines up completely. It's like, I wish my people would repent, metanoia, change their mind. Yeah. So they could turn and if they turn they're going to be facing him and when when in the scriptures is they so they could They could turn so you could change their mind so they could turn and be healed but in order to do that The mind right and this is where I just heard that I mean I can stop thinking about that as you were saying that because the concepts are there It is changing the mind about what you think about God, because when you said now, when I look at the world, it's like this world is beautiful.
There's beauty everywhere. And it is exactly. And sometimes that changing of the mind is is We need some help with it. Sometimes, sometimes we get stuck and sometimes it's sometimes it's a cannabis. Sometimes it's prayer. Sometimes it's a mushroom. Sometimes it's sleep and sometimes it's rest. You know what I mean?
These things come in all kinds of forms because life is dynamic. I have really, really, really enjoyed our conversation. Tracey is very cool. And I know, like, I know you got a busy day today. So we got a few more minutes to wrap up. I'll give you the last thing to say you can. You can close out with whatever you want to tell people.
Are you going to say hey, because what you had it right there if you want it right there too. That was good too, because that was some beautiful words right there. That's cool.
[00:48:02] Tracey Tee: Yeah. Thank you. Um. I don't know you, what you were saying was making me think to, yeah, I think, um, I think I would say maybe we'll leave with a question of like an invitation for people to say curious about what does it actually mean to be healed?
Um, I think Jesus speaks to this a lot, actually, like, you know, there's parables in the Bible and I'm not, I'm not good at quoting the Bible, so I'm not going to pretend like I'm an expert.
[00:48:29] Miguel Torrez: I'm not the guy who said it either.
[00:48:30] Tracey Tee: Yeah. But, um, you know, do you actually. want to be healed. And we, in our mind, in our literal, logical world, our materialistic world, we, we transfer that into just being like physical or like, or into suffering.
But what we're missing is, do you actually want to leave your suffering? Do you actually, or even deeper, Do you, are you actually suffering or can you find the lesson in this uncomfortable moment that you're asking to be relieved of? And I think asking ourselves, like, do we want to be healed truly? Do we want God to heal us?
Do we have the ability to heal ourselves? Do we actually want to leave the uncomfortable places in our lives and replace it with something better? And do you know what that means? Um, I think is a, is a enough, enough prayer and contemplation for most of us for quite a long time to try to answer that question.
[00:49:36] Miguel Torrez: That's perfect. That is perfect, Tracey. Perfect. Thank you very much. I'm going to, you know, I'm going to do, I'm going to do the, uh, I'm going to do the short bio to close this out here. Okay. Okay. This is our special guest was Tracey T. Tracey T. founded the internationally recognized psychedelic community for mothers moms on mushrooms in the spring of 2022.
Since its launch, MOM has been featured on NPR, Good Morning America, Today Show, Rolling Stone Magazine, NBC News, Fox News, and London Times. Tracey has appeared on Dr. Phil and has spoken on panels for CBS, excuse me, for PBS, TM, TAM Integration, Microdosing Collective, and was an invited speaker at the MAP Psychedelic Science 2023 conference.
She lives in Denver, Colorado with her husband of 20 years, 21 years, and their miracle daughter, who is 12 years old. 13. 13, yeah, 13 now, sorry.
[00:50:31] Tracey Tee: And married 22 years, but yeah. Right on. Hey, that's, that's.
[00:50:35] Miguel Torrez: Hey, that's, I am happy for you guys. Thank you so much for your time.
[00:50:39] Tracey Tee: This
[00:50:40] Miguel Torrez: is the conversation cannabis and Christianity podcast.
Love you all.
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