In this illuminating episode of the Soul Seeker Podcast, host Sam Kabert sits down with Tracey Tee—creator of Moms on Mushrooms—to unpack the transformative potential of microdosing, especially for mothers. Tracey shares her personal journey: from building a comedy show for moms and losing it during the pandemic, to discovering psychedelics as a powerful tool for healing her own trauma and supporting other women navigating motherhood’s challenges.
They discuss the importance of starting small with microdosing—rather than jumping straight into large-dose ceremonies—and highlight how mothers, in particular, benefit from slower, more intentional approaches. Tracey explains why facing one’s fears and grief can unlock deeper resilience and self-love, and she offers guidance on safely exploring plant medicine while juggling family responsibilities.
From dispelling myths about “mommy wine culture” and toxic positivity to holding space for authentic emotions, Tracey emphasizes the transformative shifts that occur when we trust our bodies, reclaim our sovereignty, and integrate lessons from psychedelics into daily life. Whether you’re new to psychedelics or a seasoned explorer, this episode offers a grounded, heart-centered perspective on healing, empowerment, and the magic of mushrooms.
Read Transcript
[00:00:00] Sam Kabert: Welcome to the Soul Seeker Podcast. I'm your host, Sam Kabert, and this year marks the fifth birthday of the Soul Seeker Podcast. I started this pod back in 2019, when I was taking my first steps on the path of remembering. And at the time, the tagline for the show was a journey of self discovery. A year later, it became a journey of remembering.
Yet, what I know now is back then, I was still seeking. And what I've come to know now is that it's the journey of seeking that brings us It's the silent, slow stillness of acceptance. And therein lies our own innate wisdom. It's my mission now to eradicate the glorification of hustle culture, as it was my drive in entrepreneurship that led to a greater whole.
And that's because I was outsourcing my sovereignty rather than looking within. So let this be your invitation to take a deep breath in and remember. That at any time, we can shift our thoughts and our feelings to create the outer world in which we wish to live. Soul Seekers, it's time to grow. Let's go.
So excited for this conversation with Tracy T to talk all things about, really, an entry level. To introducing people to a different path and opening up their minds and opening up their hearts and not just people, but moms specifically, before we dive into this conversation, Tracy, why don't you and I just drop in some breath with some breath, just a few breaths and listeners, I encourage you to breathe along with us.
And maybe if you're driving or doing anything where you can't close your eyes, just keep your eyes open, but you can still breathe with us. So for everyone else, we'll just close our eyes. Find a comfortable seat, landing with your feet on the floor, palms on the lap, and through the nose, inhaling all the way up, sipping in a bit more air at the top, and through the mouth, exhale, belly to spine, shoulders drop, another big inhale through the nose, sipping in a bit more air at the top, pausing.
And exhale. Let it go.
Last one. Biggest inhale yet. Inhaling all the way up. Sipping in a bit more at the top. Hold the breath. Roll back the eyes. Continuing to hold the breath. Just feeling. And through the mouth exhale.
Letting the breath return to its natural state and rhythm. And flickering the eyes open and we'll get started here. Tracy, thank you so much for making the time to be on Soul Seeker Podcast. How are you feeling right now?
[00:03:12] Tracey Tee: Oh, I'm feeling good. Thank you for allowing me to stop and breathe. I forget.
[00:03:18] Sam Kabert: Don't we all, right?
Yeah. All it takes is a couple minutes, sometimes even just three breaths like that. Anyways, though, for anyone that's new to you and new to your work, can you tell us how you, I don't want to say stumbled into moms on mushrooms, but give us the origin story of how moms on mushrooms came to be would love to hear.
[00:03:39] Tracey Tee: I definitely stumbled into moms on mushrooms. I fell face planted skinned all my knees. Yeah. My origin story, it's long. I'll try to keep it truncated, but I came to this space by way of a live comedy show. I had been a performer entertainer and I had a comedy show that I created wrote, produced, and performed with my best friend and business partner for almost 10 years called the pumping up show.
So it was about parenting. I'm really geared towards laughing about the things we have in common as mothers. And we spent a long time touring the country and every venue that you can imagine. Bringing moms together to laugh about the things we have in common. And a lot of what we did involve just listening to the stories of moms.
We did the show, but then there was a good hour and a half after the show where we would take pictures with the people who came and we just heard so many stories and we would cry ourselves to sleep often just Like from the stories that these women would share and we just became acutely aware of a palpable distress, depression dependence on pills deep concerning unhappiness, like a really thin thread that pulled through just about every mom.
Coast to coast and everywhere in between. And when the lockdowns happened, we like eventually within two weeks, like lost everything we had built with a 10 year business. We had the year prior created and invested in two new casts and we were ready to pass the torch. We had a cast out of Chicago and a cast out of Los Angeles.
of new moms that were going to tour the country regionally. My partner and I were days away from signing an off Broadway contract with two Tony award winning producers to bring our show to New York. And then everything began to shut down and we just watched our business sift through our fingers like sand.
And anyone who has owned their own business knows that your business is like a limb, some people say a child, like losing it, especially when you didn't do anything wrong and it was completely out of control. Like it was intense. It was intense shock. And then it was intense grief. And I had just started.
I had been on a spiritual journey for many years prior to that. Really, the day I turned 40, I think this is common for a lot of women, men too. It's like you turn 40, you turn into this new decade, you've navigated your twenties and thirties and like really figured your shit out. And then there's something, it's like the whole David Byrne song, how did I get here? I felt like on my, I remember sitting at a fancy dinner on my 40th birthday, looking around and just thinking who am I? And what happened to my brain? And I was in a creative business. I was a successful entrepreneur in many ways. Like I was, utilizing my creative brain.
And in many ways I felt like I hadn't used my brain in years. And that kind of just launched me on those big existential questions of who am I? What am I, what do I want? What do I believe in? How do, What does healing mean? And all that. And through that, of course psychedelics would kind of circle in and come back to me time and time again.
And I had been researching ayahuasca and magic mushrooms for many years, but it's then a rather young mom, I was just always that's great, but that's not for me. Like I'm never going to go to the Amazon rainforest for three weeks and do six rounds of Aya. There's just no. And so I always put it on a back burner is something that sounded.
Great for other folks, but not for this mom. And when we lost the pump and I'm show, I had this space to go deeper. And that summer of 2020, I actually had this very it was like, like my big, people who go through kind of big awakenings, you have big booms and things that happen, but this was like a, especially like shocking one to my system.
And it just, Prompted me to go deeper. And I found that I had the space to explore the things that maybe I had been avoiding. And then, and so the medicine was just calling. And I always say like mushrooms, when you're ready, especially with mushrooms, for some reason they are they are little beings and I feel like they show up with their little like mushroom suitcases at your door when you're ready.
And so they just kept knocking and knocking. And then that summer, my same best friend and business partner called me and she was like, Hey. I want you to come camping with a bunch of other women at this lake outside Boulder. And you're going to put your big girl pants on and you're going to do some mushrooms when we go camping.
I was like, okay. And so I did, and when I was driving up there, I thought to myself, if this experience is what my soul tells me it's going to be, maybe there's something here. And it was like the PR and I had never done any drugs like besides some weed in my life. And I'm here, I am 43, 44 years old.
And Trying all this for the first time and it was the quintessential first experience. I saw every symbol that had ever been written in the world. I felt my connection to God. I saw a grid over the earth and I left just thinking holy cow, I've just been shown so much more. And also inside that when I was 41, I ended up having to have a full hysterectomy because I'd had stage four endometriosis since I was in my early twenties.
And the scar tissue and adhesions had gotten so bad that like things were stuck to other organs and it was becoming detrimental to my health. So I walked into the hospital with hormones and I walked out with hot flashes. That's how quick surgical menopause happens when you have. All of your parts removed.
So I had everything taken ovaries, cervix, fallopian tubes, uterus. I got nothing. And in that time, my functional medicine doctor wisely put me on wellbutrin to navigate that abrupt transition. And I'm so grateful that she did, but I had never taken pharmaceuticals like that before either. And there wasn't really an out clause.
I was like am I on this for the rest of my life? What do I look like without it? Who am I without it? And so after that large dose experience microdosing just made so much sense. And so I asked that same doctor, I was like I don't, thanks for the Wellbutrin, but I don't want to take it forever.
What do you think about microdosing? And she was like, I think it's great. I just can't tell you anything about it. And so I eventually took a course and started microdosing myself and really all of the dots of this, like middle life crisis, middle life journey just started to connect and I really felt my life just go like this when I began to microdose and fast forward to almost a year later to the day of that fateful camping trip.
My family was driving up in the mountains outside Aspen, Colorado in the morning and we got hit by a drunk driver and my nine year old daughter and 18 year old niece were in the car. We flew through a guardrail and 30 feet in the air and landed in a ditch in the mountains and had to pull our kids out of a smoking car.
It was awful. We were very injured. And when we came home and I began to recover, I could feel the grief and terror of that moment, like rising. out of me and leaving my body almost in real time because, and I think it was because I kept microdosing through the whole thing. And that was the confirmation I needed to say this is healing and you don't go through something that terrible and that debilitating, especially when there's children involved without some sort of residual thing.
And I just felt it leaving me and That led me to find a family counselor to handle the trauma who just happened to be a shaman and she treated my daughter, just as like psychotherapy and my daughter just after one time with her was like, okay, I get it. I understand the point. I'm good. When I finally got in to see her, we talked about the accidents for maybe 15 minutes, and then it was like straight.
We just found ourselves to medicine. And that was when she took me on my first really guided shamanic large dose journey. And that was when I was shown very clearly by the mushrooms that this medicine is here for a reason right now. And the work I had done with mothers, bringing moms together through laughter and a club around a lot of alcohol.
Now is time to really get serious and start talking. And I was like, no, thank you. That sounds terrible. And who am I to do this? No, actually. And so I spent quite a few not that long, but quite a few weeks, like with my face on the floor, crying to God, just saying this isn't possible. And then one day in meditation, MOM moms on mushrooms just landed in my head and I sat up and I was like that's genius.
Like certainly someone's thought of it and went to the computer and there it was. And I was like, fine. And I said, yes. And the rest is history.
[00:11:39] Sam Kabert: That's an incredible story. Thank you so much for sharing. And yeah, from brand perspective, MOM moms on mushrooms and mom. That's amazing. I
[00:11:47] Speaker 3: can't take any credit.
So that's why I can talk about it. Cause it was just like, yeah.
[00:11:51] Sam Kabert: Yeah. And I think a lot of the listeners of the show can relate to that. Especially my recent book, my sixth one, I'm like, yeah, that just came through me, like that wasn't even me, so I feel that a hundred percent, you mentioned the car crash.
Did you say that you guys through. Flew through the air 30 feet. That is awfully traumatic. I can only try to envision and imagine what that must be like. So you mentioned that your daughter had one session with the shaman, the psychotherapist, that's it.
[00:12:21] Tracey Tee: That's it. Yeah. And then what's felt like she could I was like seeing the light dim out of her eyes and that was in 2021 and good luck getting any child therapist to call you during that time.
It was crazy. Like they don't even answer their phones. And I was so desperate for someone to help her because, she was starting to have those same questions. Mom, you always told me I was safe and now I'm not safe anywhere. Like why are men at 11 o'clock in the morning, wasted driving cars and running into us, so many big questions that just weren't for a parent to answer and we were at our OT actually. And I was like, desperate. I'm like, do you know anyone? I'll like anyone that can see her. And he said, yeah there, there is this woman and she's really hard to get a hold of. And she's been doing this work for a million years and she's really good with kids, but I don't know if you can get into Sierra.
I was like, give me your name. And I had to beg her for a month to return my phone call. And then yeah, I saw her and just her. Yeah, she's, she's old school, I was trained by Stan Groff and Sandra Ingram and just knew how to hold space for my kiddo in a way that healed her really.
Yeah.
[00:13:20] Sam Kabert: And the reason why I'm going there is there's so many layers to the work you're doing. And one is like just helping moms and people in general to feel their best and be aligned and open up their hearts so that they can show up for others. And then when we get into that second layer of showing up for leather mothers, others, mothers being a parent.
What type of lessons or resources would you give other parents out there that are listening to this story specifically of this traumatic car crash that another parent can look at, like how they can help their kids with ever whatever their kids are going through?
[00:13:55] Tracey Tee: Oh gosh. That's such a good question.
And it's, it's a hard answer. I think like on one hand, I think I've been shown a larger landscape of really beautiful souls who are here to help each other. I think we're in a new age of healers and even I think therapy as we've known it is absolutely evolving and changing and it's becoming much more spiritual.
And I don't say that in a, yeah. Burning man, Coachella kind of way, or in a Joel Austin kind of way, they're like a recognition that there's something greater than us at work here and an acknowledgement of that, like in the session probably in a more union way and and so I think what I would say is.
Be open to the external fringe of what you think you should do. There's like the path that we've been told of how we can go, which is call your pediatrician call your school counselor, go to the therapy place. But look just outside of that and you're going to see a whole world open up of people who are really honing in on niche.
Healing modalities. And that could be like one of the women who took one of my very first courses, who's this incredibly talented space holder for neurodivergent kids. And she really knows how to help them exist in this world. And there's so many people who have these diverse niches that you just have to be curious and don't settle for like the norm because the norm is going away. And what's being replaced is this beautiful rainbow of talent and skill and gifts that people are being called to show to the world.
[00:15:19] Sam Kabert: Yeah, absolutely. And it can be so disorienting and confusing, not only to just navigate like the, this 3d plane after.
a spiritual awakening experience, but also being new on the path, being like, I don't know what I don't know. And just health wellness. I know you've had a journey that you've been describing that you continue to share. And I appreciate your vulnerability and myself and others that I know that are also going through their own version of wellness and health, it is, you try this natural path, that homeopath, this aria vague doctor, there's, and all of that's way more helpful than what, in my experience, Western medicine, but it's still not really zeroing in on the thing. So it's very challenging. Yeah.
[00:16:02] Tracey Tee: Yeah. And that's, to bring it to like medicine and to microdosing for me, I think one thing that microdosing has really helped me do is two things.
Many things, but in this conversation, one is like tapping into my intuition and understanding my own discernment. And then really valuing. My own sovereignty and my own unique path in this world. Because it is especially when you're, when you open yourself up to something new and different, like everything looks shiny and exciting and interesting, and it can be so overwhelming.
And then there's this bizarre sort of uniquely American pressure that you have to like. Go all in and you've got to do it in 30 days. And it's like a, it's like a huge amount of energy and pressure. And what I felt is just actually just taking a look at what's right for me without any emotional attachment to outcome or projection of what I think other people think they want me to do or how I wish I was.
And just saying really just saying, you know what this. Ayurveda doesn't feel right for me, but I'm really loving a cold plunger, whatever it is, and really honing in on what feels good in your body. But you have to understand what feels good and you have to understand what those feelings are in your body before you can start making decisions that way.
So it's a process.
[00:17:10] Sam Kabert: Yeah, I definitely went through that myself and do recommend that for other people to just a sample things when you're first starting, because that's the only way you're going to figure it out. Point. So most of your demographic, I would imagine the in your community and that are drawn to your work.
Do most of them have a similar story to you in that they don't have much of an experience with? Yeah, so could you speak to that a little bit and how you hold their hand and guide them?
[00:17:36] Tracey Tee: Yeah, I love that you tapped into that. Absolutely. I think the thing that's unique about, I think me and my organization is like my own life story and that I don't identify as I don't, I just identify as Tracy, right?
Like I dropped all that too. Thank you. Medicine and lots of ego deaths. But I think I can hold a foot in this 3d world. And there's something very grounding about being a mom who has to, organize dentist appointments and go to lacrosse practice and work on homework projects and buy groceries and cook dinner.
And, there's something very grounding about being a parent that keeps you tethered to like reality. And yeah. You just can't, you just can't go too far outside the line sometimes when you're raising kids and and I have this foot into this amazing, expansive spiritual space where I believe that altered states of consciousness are going to heal us, ultimately and so we can talk the language and just, I think for most people in any walk of life, when you have a unique shared experience, it just draws you together.
And yeah. Just saying to mothers, here's a community that shares two things in common. We're mothers and we talk about medicine is enough to just take those barriers down a little bit where people feel comfortable where they can just ask questions. And what we find is that the moms, if you're a mom and you come to mom, by the time you found us, you've probably tried, you've probably taken just about every medicine there is, you've tried everything else and nothing is working.
And you've found us and you're interested in microdosing, like despite yourself, like to your shock and and you're just, and you're like, I don't even know the words coming out of my mouth, but I want to try this because I'm desperate. And so it's our responsibility to hold space for those women and say.
You have permission to try something that the world is going to tell you is wrong, and we're gonna, we're gonna make sure that you're empowered by knowledge, that you're educated, and that you do it right in the sense that you're safe, and that we're not trying to sell you some sort of panacea or magic pill, but say welcome to the rest of your life of unpeeling the onion layers, and this is just one way to help and I think that's what makes us different.
[00:19:37] Sam Kabert: I love that. It's so amazing. It's so needed, not just for moms, but to your point, niches are great. And that's where we can connect. And it's a good entry path. What sort of reservations would they still typically have? Like these moms that are new to your community, even if they've already tried some things or looked up microdosing or plant medicine, like what are the common reservations you hear?
[00:20:00] Tracey Tee: I think all of it really just stems from. Just decades of misinformation. Am I going to go insane? Is my brain going to drip out my ear? Am I going to jump off a building? Will I be arrested? Possibly the last one because our government is. In the dark ages. But I think that is really, it is just making sure.
And alternatively also misinformation. I think that's coming from moving too fast in the space. So a lot of women come to us and they're like, I want to start microdosing yesterday. I want to lose 50 pounds. I want to cure my treatment resistant, depressive disorder. I want to fix my marriage and I want to have a better relationship with my children.
And can we do that in 12
[00:20:36] Sam Kabert: days? Yeah.
[00:20:37] Tracey Tee: Yeah. And so just being like, Oh, actually, I don't know who told you that any of that would happen, but let's take a smaller, slower approach to it. So I just think fear is probably the biggest resistance like massive amounts of fear and then secondary to that, although it's rapidly dissipating faster than the fear is just judgment.
I, even people whose partners, my partner can't find out about this, but I'm desperate or my family finds out about this. They'll never, they'll like that fear again. I think that's dispelling. I think generally speaking, those of us like my team and mom, when we talk about what we do, most people are like.
It's amazing, but people just, we don't even, people don't even necessarily know how this medicine works or what it does or what it can and what it can't do. And so it's just a matter of providing that education.
[00:21:22] Sam Kabert: There's so much to unpack, but we might stay here for a moment. So you mentioned Fear and like my husband can't find out or, I, I totally get colleagues, work, friends, family, all of that.
But for me, what I'm super fascinated about is do you support them in like my, those type of discussions of specifically my husband can't find out because that at least gets them started. But then knowing, not telling them, but knowing yeah, I'm going to get guiding you to speaking your truth because that's part of this process and you need to be in alignment.
[00:21:54] Tracey Tee: It's a tricky one, it's a real tricky one. And I would say there's no we don't have any sort of categorical protocol for it rather, but I think exactly what you said we don't, so just for some background, just to give context on how we work, we have we have many different ways where you can just learn about.
Psychedelics are microdosing specifically right now, but our foundational one is a three month course where we have small cohorts of 10 women or less. And we really, again, take our time. And the point is not to learn about microdosing because it's not actually that complicated. Once you learn the foundations, the brain is very complicated, but the basics of it aren't huge.
What is important is learning how to make an intentional practice, how to create a relationship a meaningful relationship with the medicine and also just Walking yourself up the stairs to actually being welcome to changing your life. And when you're being asked to change something to be able to say yes, that's the challenge.
And then obviously depending on what sort of medications or. Mental health history. A certain client might have. We may or may not accept you into the program. So inside that, if someone is coming to us in deep distress and she's and my husband can't know or I don't, I'm trying to keep the secret.
We really have to look at the why, like a deeper core and then decide We may not be the best fit for you in this moment, and you might be better served by a different kind of professional who can do more one on one and you may just want to take a pause and maybe just join our community and read about it until you feel like there's a space where you're not in such distress that you can at least share with your partner what you're doing.
There's a lot, secrets aren't good and they're not good in a marriage. And we try to get to the bottom of it. I would say.
[00:23:25] Sam Kabert: Yeah. That's why I asked. I was like, Ooh that's a that's a tough one to navigate there for sure. Cause I, like I said, I get it with work and even family outside of the direct home, but it's different within the marriage.
Yeah, for sure. So that makes sense. Very subjective. You got to massage your way through it. That, that totally makes sense. Microdosing since we haven't even, we're like 30 minutes in whatever we have. I haven't even really talked about like what microdosing is, but it's interesting cause your brand is moms on mushrooms, right?
Not mall. It would be like M O M like moms on microdosed mushrooms or something like that. Yeah. It's very it's almost like a tagline. It's as soon as you take a peek into the brand, you're like, Oh, it's microdosing. Okay, cool. Because at first you might look at moms on mushrooms and could think it's a little
[00:24:09] Speaker 3: high.
Yeah,
[00:24:09] Sam Kabert: yeah, totally for sure. Microdosing. How do you explain microdosing to someone that's not as familiar with the term?
[00:24:18] Tracey Tee: Sure. Microdosing is taking a very low dose of what, basically a percentage of what is a large dose where you would achieve psychoactive or hallucinogenic effects in the body.
So to just do some very basic math, the typical person usually starts to feel perceptual hallucinogenic effects between, oftentimes starting right at one gram worth of dried mushrooms or even fresh mushrooms, magic mushrooms, one gram. Closer to one and a half, up is when you start to feel and you start to have the like rainbows and unicorns in the sky, a large dose journey, a larger dose where you're really going deep, you're talking to God and like the quintessential things we hear about when someone is tripping or taking a large dose journey is really around that, like two and a half to three plus gram Measurement.
So the theory behind microdosing is taking an amount that is so low, you're not feeling those perceptual effects and taking it consistently with integration days, but over time so that the medicine is doing the kind of brain rewiring that happens in a large dose journey, but you're not like on the floor crying for six hours and you're able to consciously connect with the medicine again, achieve those results.
neurological benefits but go about your daily life. So that's usually 1 10th of a large dose, which typically ranges between 50 milligrams and maybe I would say 150 milligrams versus one gram to three grams. So tiny doses. And And with that, my theory, and my mentors sometimes disagree with me, but I believe that especially in the West, especially with the modern Western mother, we have no context working with, Psychedelics in a intentional way, like at all, we have all but eviscerated the idea of ceremony in our lives, like actual spirituality in the way that I think like God intended connection to nature we don't know what any of that is.
And I think microdosing is a really beautiful way to start to learn about that and create a relationship with the medicine so that when you're ready to take those very large and very healing journeys with it, you're not completely destabilized like you have some context and that's I think really what we can offer is to just start creating a relationship with this because I think the large dose journeys are amazing and that's why we're called moms on mushrooms and probably should be called moms on medicine because it's not just mushrooms.
But for me, yeah. I'm definitely like, that is my master teacher. And I think I said this at the beginning, but I do believe that mushrooms are, have presented themselves specifically on in the West for us in this moment. And there's such a, they're so democratic, right? Like mushrooms grow on every corner of the earth.
So we're not culturally appropriating anything where they're easily accessible. They're easy to grow. There's just so many good things about mushrooms and they're a lot gentler than some of the other psychedelics out there. So that's why we're starting with those.
[00:27:21] Sam Kabert: I love that. And I feel like Paul Stamets documentary, Fantastic Fungi or Fungi, whichever way you want to say is an amazing, just like educational piece to get started with specifically with mushrooms, that really, and he's the
[00:27:34] Tracey Tee: one who said that he's like mushrooms grow in every continent on the planet.
They're here for all of us. Yeah. And that's a beautiful, that's just a beautiful thing to watch. We made our daughter watch it. It's so good.
[00:27:44] Sam Kabert: You made what watch our
[00:27:45] Tracey Tee: daughter. Yeah.
[00:27:46] Sam Kabert: Oh yeah. Yeah. My parents watch it. And then afterwards I showed them some of your work on YouTube and finally my mom was like listening to me and interested after, let's see.
Five years of being on this path and showing her and my dad's stuff. And finally, like she was like getting it in light bulbs were clicking. I'm sure she's listening to it right now, this right now, and probably laughing a little bit, but neither here nor there. You mentioned someone, your mentor doesn't agree with you or something like that, where you talking about starting small versus going straight to the deep end.
[00:28:17] Tracey Tee: Yeah. I just want to say to your mother, if she's listening we actually have seen a massive influx of women in their 60s, 70s, all the way up to late eighties coming into moms on mushrooms, like ready to change. And we're just not, this is my only plug, but we are just launching a special microdosing course with this, my same mentor, like my dear mentor.
For women, grandmothers, mothers, 60 plus to start microdosing. So we've got a space for you.
[00:28:44] Sam Kabert: I'm sure she would love that. She's a new Gigi as she calls it. Grandma to my brother's a daughter. Who's now a little over two. So yeah, it would be really cool to have my mom in your community. I'm a push towards that.
Actually that same time they were over here and we were watching fantastic fungi and then several things with you and some other people as well. I had accidentally left my microdose of mushrooms in my dad's truck cause we were going on something in Santa Cruz, like a forging it was supposed to be for mushrooms, but it was for plants.
And so I was trying to convince him to take a little tiny microdose before, but they've had my microdose mushrooms for almost two months now. And I'm, I totally know it's the difference when I'm not microdosing. So I'm excited to get those back here for father's day at the time of this. But let me see backtracking.
Okay. So they're the deep end. We were talking about going to the deep end versus starting small. One of my really good friends and mentors, she sir, she works with Bufo. And we see a lot of people that. Go straight to Bufo five MEO and don't have any experience with mushrooms, cannabis, like anything.
And they actually have really profound experiences. And I agree with both sides. I'm like to paint it's all, this is subjective. And this gets into a conversation that I want to have with you about the integrity of facilitators, integrity of us that are sitting with the medicine, how this is such a fast paced growing quote unquote industry.
And it's the wild west, like just what's coming to mind for you.
[00:30:15] Tracey Tee: Yeah, so like my teachers, the old the shamanic way and I always say like them. I'm like raised by medicine women when I came into the space. I should also preface like I've loved herbs. I think I've been a green witch for a long time.
Like I have dried herbs everywhere. Like I love plants. When I came into this space, I was swooped up by medicine. Women that are really take the slow, more earth based way around this, the more shamanic way. And so that's just, that's my lineage. And that way really believes that if you're going through an issue.
You go big, you go deep, you go in and you get it out. And so that's how my teachers feel. And I agree if you're raised in a culture that has reverence and respect and an understanding of that. Or your constitution is aligned with that. I think of course it can be very powerful for mothers specifically.
Moms are, we are required to do all the research we have to think of all the worst case scenarios all the time with everything, right? Like you're buying a box of cereal. You have to think not only how much does this cost, but is my kid, how's my kid can be on it? How long is it going to last? Everything takes a million decisions and everything has a million outcomes that are not favorable.
And so I think when you are finding yourself interested in a psychedelic. Journey and you may already be in distress naturally because you're a mom and you're raising timely humans and it's hard. It's hard as hell to jump into three or five grams and not have any context or understanding of what you're doing or having spent very little time researching or even if you maybe don't even have any friends that have experienced it.
You don't even know what to look for in terms of a guide or if you decide to do it by yourself. There's so many things that can happen in that landscape. that can be destabilizing, that it can really harm you and your perception of the medicine and the healing that can happen. So I just think it's better to take it a little slow.
For moms specifically. And that's not always the case. And again, a lot of people disagree with me, but we found, but again, we go back to that. fear factor. And if you're scared to even take a microdose, then how are you ever going to feel okay and go into a ceremony with three grams without some sort of like confidence inside you?
And if you're going in with fear and distress and high expectations, you're just like generally setting yourself up for not a great outcome. So I'd rather just let people take their time. You made it this far without psychedelics anyway, learn about it. Learn about it, talk to people about it, get some context and then go where your heart is calling you.
And that goes back to that like sovereignty and discernment place. Does that answer your question?
[00:32:56] Sam Kabert: For sure. That totally resonates. I'm an integration guide. So for me, I always encourage people having enough space on both sides. And I think you mentioned it at the beginning of this podcast, not having.
Time to go to Amazon for three weeks or whatever it may be. And it's not only the traveling to get to the ceremony, even if it's in your backyard, but the time to integrate afterwards and mom, parent, it's very challenging when you have kids as well, because you could have that space where you have a couple of days to yourself, but then.
From what I hear from other parents, there's a lot of challenges of, Oh, I just want to be with my kids. And that's a big lesson in itself to take that time for you right there. Point being like. It makes a lot of sense with your specific demographic that you're really starting small. And I do think it is a case by case situation anyways.
Yeah no. And integration,
[00:33:50] Tracey Tee: integration is something that we're just really starting to appreciate and really like talk hand in hand with the journey. Even when I started. wasn't like part of my thing. And again, we're so fast and moms just don't, if you carve out one day for yourself, even to go do a, take a journey, right?
Like you're definitely not going to carve out four days to cancel your plans and take care of yourself and take baths and sleep in that, and so integrating, if you don't have that, Like what's the point of spending all that money and all that time and like physical, emotional, spiritual stress if you can't work on it and also understanding that it's necessary.
That's part of the large dose journey. And that's why microdosing is good because you never take microdoses. You don't take them every day. So the lessons you learn from your microdose days, you try to pull in on off days and you, and then you can apply say whoa, look at me doing this thing that I learned.
And then that just builds up confidence.
[00:34:48] Sam Kabert: Yeah. Yeah. Let's go back to microdosing, 'cause there's several different like approaches to microdosing in terms of the frequency. What is the frequency and the cadence that you recommend?
[00:34:59] Tracey Tee: You probably won't be surprised, but we don't recommend anything
[00:35:02] Sam Kabert: Okay. Oh yeah. Yeah.
[00:35:04] Tracey Tee: No, except for just always at least take two days off a week. I think one of the most, again, one of the most beautiful things and most empowering things for mothers is trusting your intuition in your body and saying knowing your why, like why you're microdosing on any day.
And I think getting really clear with that. Not because you just want to, or not because you think you should or need to, but do you really know why you're taking this medicine? And I just don't think, a lot of this is unlearning like the allopathic method that we've been taught, which is take the same thing out of the bottle at the same time, every day, and everyone takes the same dose, and instead let's not have another, dude in a white coat telling us when to do this and let's like really listen to our hearts.
So people get angry because they're like, just tell us when to take it. And we just, we know you'll know if you're really clear and honest with yourself.
[00:35:53] Sam Kabert: I think that's really important because I didn't ask you about this, but I wanted to earlier, you mentioned intuition discernment, and that is such a big lesson, something I'm still just constantly working on.
And I think we all are right, but intuition discernment, that is one great way to start to build. Both of those, because you're listening to that inner guidance. And then if you're being truly honest with yourself and having that awareness, you might be like, Oh maybe I'm relying on this and using as a correction, not too much,
[00:36:21] Tracey Tee: yeah. And then the beautiful thing is I think when you can say that and be honest with yourself, but not have the guilt, like emotional attachment to that and say. Oh, it looks like I'm relying on this. I can just walk away and you don't have to beat yourself up for three days over that realization and just have a lighter grip.
Ooh, that's amazing. And I think the beautiful thing that mushrooms can do is it like, we all know now, like our gut is really what drives. Most things, emotions, decisions, right? Our gut tells our heart, what to send to our brain. And I, a lot of women, a lot of moms who come to us are, find a myriad of uncomfortable, even negative feelings or emotions, not the least of which is just being like really tired when you start microdosing.
And I, from an energetic standpoint, I really believe that like you're. Your body and your brain are finally coming into alignment and they're finally listening to each other and that's where that somatic part comes in and that intuition when everything starts to hear each other talking, your brain is finally hearing your body say.
I am really tired and you just need to take a nap like really bad and that could, that feeling, that message could trying to be, have been trying to be sent for years especially in parenting. And so it's very surprising when you finally hear those things from your body and then you don't know what to do with them.
So again, lessening the grip on those realizations. It gives you allows you to give yourself some grace and then you can just go lay down.
[00:37:51] Sam Kabert: And this is so powerful to how strong microdosing can be and the point that we don't need to do these deep dives with any of the medicines to have an impact because if you are getting the realization coming to a place of wow I've been thriving on fight or flight and that's the only way that I'm really surviving all of a sudden now I'm so tired because I'm no longer in fight or flight that's also one dis.
Ease can start to happen within the body as well. If you are integrating those lessons just for microdosing alone, that's going to change your life. And
[00:38:25] Tracey Tee: Isn't that enough? Do you have to go see do you have to go see aliens on a spaceship and machine elves? That's a
[00:38:30] Sam Kabert: good question.
I don't know. I feel for me, but yeah, no, totally. I feel that, that, that brings up the other point of when we start to go deeper with the medicines. I know within myself, my journey with this and so many others peers, colleagues, friends, whatever, and clients, it's almost. A theme across the board of jumping to ceremony.
I had a really strong, powerful mentor that was against psychedelics. And he was like, you do you, but remember this make sure that you're working with these medicines as a tool and not a crutch. So that helped me for the first year or so. And then one of my things I've been working on my entire life is peer pressure and then starting to see everyone else go about not to shift the blame, but be like, Oh maybe there is something to this.
And not that everyone goes through this, but a lot of people start to outsource their sovereignty, go back to the medicine and chase ceremony to ceremony. And without judgment, I think that's just part of the process. And the hard part is cutting that cord or cutting that tie and starting to go back to that intuition and discernment,
[00:39:39] Tracey Tee: Oh my gosh, a hundred percent agree.
But I think that's also just it's just residual of our culture, right? Bigger, harder, faster, stronger, always like always. And so you're always rewarded for going bigger with anything, even if it's your depression, right? That is a, you're rewarded for that. And so again and ceremony is its own bubble, especially group ceremonies.
And then these experiences are oftentimes like. Insanely delightful. Very often they are. So of course you want to go back to that place. And we're not taught, and this goes back to just like cultural, like we're not taught to recognize that's, there's a place for that and it's special, and to not, you don't need it all the time.
So I totally understand that, and the peer pressure is real and then there's this just in an eight thing, and again, I'm not, I don't really mean to harp on Americans, but I do think it's uniquely us. It's like Then everyone just talks about their amazing experiences with large dose journeys.
And so then you're pressured by that because you want that you want to go talk to God. You want to go to the spaceship. You want to have a have your Dharma revealed or your change your life. And so we're all chasing everybody else's highs on top of chasing our own. And the real medicine is sitting with our uncomfortability.
And that's the work, which is why integration is. Critical is just like sitting with all those crunchy parts, sober as hell. That's where the work gets done.
[00:41:02] Sam Kabert: A hundred percent. And I've worked with so many clients that come to me, basically wondering why they're messed up because they didn't get the delightful or amazing experience they were promised.
And in terms of the Dharma being revealed, one thing that really helped me was. I couldn't put my finger on it, but I knew there was something that was really rubbing me the wrong way in spiritual conscious, mindful communities, talking about Dharma mission, and purpose. And mind you, I had come from this path from just finally hitting seven figures in my business and being named Silicon values, 40 under 40 and be like, okay, I have.
All the things I've been chasing, but now I'm not, now I'm not happy and I feel unfulfilled. And I'm like, I was playing big, like the whole idea of playing big. I was like, no, I won't play small. I don't want to be in your point of like bigger, more, whatever, like the. whole topic of playing big or what's your mission.
I was like, something does not feel right for with this. And then one time in holding space in a medicine ceremony, this download just came through. And it was like, the answer is self love, because if quantum physics is teaching us that our outer world is a reflection. of our inner world, and we're constantly creating our reality.
If our inner state is from a chaotic place of what's my mission, what's my purpose, what's my dharma, how narcissistic or ego driven are we to think that we're, we are that special to change the world when if we can just find self love truly within ourself, that will be reflected outwardly, and that's the only dharma you ever need,
[00:42:33] Tracey Tee: amen. And it's we got self love backwards. We blew up self love. We made it a hashtag. It became a trite, like Pithy word to to excuse expensive manicures and pedicures and being assholes to other people, frankly, it's, it is deeply seated in narcissism and it's incredibly important.
It's biblical. Like my mentor said, reminded me, she's Jesus said, love thy neighbor as you love yourself. You can't even love your neighbor if you don't love yourself. You cannot love your neighbors if you don't love yourself. Okay. What does it mean to love yourself? That is our purpose is just to figure that out.
Who am I and why do I love me, let alone receiving love from other people, let alone feeling worthy of love. Like, why do I like who I am? And when you find that, and that's where I do think the medicine is good. If you're, gifted the opportunity to go into ceremony and have, or microdose and have these ego deaths in these big moments.
But I do think that comes with some humility. Of, for me, and I'm very grateful for like my Christian upbringing because I, I was always steeped in God, right? God has never left me. God has never left. The dogma left the building a long time ago and the toxicity, but God never left. And so I was always aware that there was something greater than me happening.
And so I was allowed to lay on my floor crying and saying like, how, why, and being vulnerable and being raw. And when you come. out of that and you decide to say yes to something that you feel called to do. The most amazing part is that it has nothing to do with you, and there is the glory, whatever that means is the least, it's like the dumb part, right?
It's like the boring part. The challenge is like loving yourself enough to love other people, and that's it. However you do that, whether you're an accountant, or a social studies middle school teacher, or a parent, or a lawyer, or a politician that is where the change comes. That is where the Dharma emerges, is when you love yourself enough to give love to other people.
[00:44:37] Sam Kabert: Amazing. Yeah. Unconditional love. That's something that I've been focused on for myself recent in the past couple of years. And then I've noticed like just talking with friends, leaving voice notes or whatever, like either they'll say this or I'll say that I'll be like, or I'll think it like, that's what I love about so and and that's when I catch myself and that we don't have time. I unpack that right there because that's a longer discussion, but it's really interesting because I'm like that's, Yes. And it's a yes. And, anyways, do you have time for one last topic? Okay, cool. So toxic positivity. I actually wrote down toxic positivity right before you use the word toxic.
I feel like the new Barbie movie was a masterpiece. I loved it. Credible. And one of the things from that movie was it so brilliantly showed the hero's journey of being honest with your thoughts and feelings and let going of the mask of toxic positivity. And I feel like a lot of moms get caught in this trap of almost like the Rosie poster.
Like I can do it all. And like this mask of toxic positivity and I'm just going to be the sunshine. What have you seen within your community of moms that are able to let go of that mask?
[00:45:50] Tracey Tee: It's not cute. It's it is not cute. It is a shock to the whole system, especially to the body. And I think you want to talk about like the seven graves, like waves of grief, but like releasing the super woman, that whole, Barbie. I'll start crying. Like Barbie. Oh, it was so good. I took my niece and my daughter to go see it afterwards.
I'm like walking out like with my arms. I was like, you have no idea. Like we've waited generations to tell you girls this story, but it is it's, it is probably the most vulnerable thing a mother can do to say, I can't. I can't do it all. And I actually don't like doing a lot of it. Like those are words we haven't been given permission to say, or let alone feel.
And then on the other side, as a woman, as a man, as a husband, as a wife, as like on the receiving side of that. We are conditioned to judge that woman for saying those things. So my knee jerk, even now of all the stuff I've gone through and all the moms I've talked to for over a decade, there's something inside me.
When I hear a mom just say, yeah, I just don't feel like doing that. Or I hate doing this or I can't, there's something inside me. That's what's wrong with you. And it is so DNA to put up with. everything. And at the same time, we've been anesthetizing mothers forever, right? Like we used to chloroform moms when they gave birth, like we didn't even want them conscious when they were pushing a baby that they carried out of their body. Like the implications of that, like what that means is so dark to me because what we're saying is on one hand, It's hard.
And on the other hand, I don't want to deal with it. Deal with you. I don't want to deal with you screaming. I don't want to see you in pain. Shut her down. And coming to a place of saying, I'm not okay. This is hard. I need help. And also, I love that works for you. But this is what I'm doing for my family.
Because this is what's right for my kid. And again, releasing the grip on projections of what anyone might think of your parenting and also deeply committing because it is a value take when you raise a life is saying, I'm going to do whatever it takes. I'm going to be the best mom I can. There is a level of expectation that we should all have and responsibility to be the best parents we can.
So you do have to think of other people besides you. You do have to sacrifice yourself. You do have to push yourself to the limit. Like those things exist, I can't tell you how many times I've had to get up with 104 degree fever and drive my kid to school or do things you don't, or take care of another sick kid.
Like those things exist and they won't stop, but to inside that not put on this smiley face and just be like, I'm amazing. I'm super woman and be softer about it. It is so difficult and it's generational. And when you start to unpack that, what you feel is a lot of rage. You feel so much anger because you're exhausted.
You are overwhelmed and you feel oftentimes defeated. And what you can't do so much so that you don't see all the things you are doing, which is every day. It's a miracle. And it's a gift to be able to raise children. It's a fucking gift. And we lose that joy because everything else has gotten so hard and so inverted.
And we don't give moms time to heal, to be sad, to be hysterical, to be angry. We don't like it. We don't like that type of woman. We don't know what to do with her and we don't want her around. And if we just gave her a little time to go out in the woods and scream, and chop some wood and dive in a river and take her clothes off and shake it out, she would come back stronger and more fierce than ever.
And we, there's no space for that in our culture. And unraveling toxic positivity is it's scary. If I'm honest, it's scary.
[00:50:03] Sam Kabert: Now I'm, I got my IFS parts for voices coming in and being like, why didn't you ask this question sooner? So much more to unpack, but thank you so much for sharing that. I can feel the passion in your energy with these words.
And honestly, that is one of the things I'm most. Passionate about is toxic positivity and kind of how we can handle that. And this is the shadow work, and shadow work, we can get addicted to shadow work, but it is an alchemy process. So with all of that said, Tracy, this was a fantastic conversation.
I appreciate. You coming on the podcast, how you're showing up in the world. And for anyone that wants to get to know Tracy more, check out the show notes. I have her website, her Instagram linked. Are there any other things that you might be working on, or you might want to share with the audience or parting words?
[00:50:49] Tracey Tee: Thank you and happy to come back and unpack the rest of that. This is, this is the gift of taking this path that I get to have these juicy conversations. So always happy to keep talking. No, I'm really excited about our rooted and rising. It's called rooted and rising and for women, mothers some of them, you might be grandmothers, 60 plus 50.
If you feel like you identify with that age group, like of course, but I'm really excited about that. We have a really beautiful, just like easy download course about large dose journeys that really, I think empowers women mothers specifically to look into it. We have interviews with women in our community that talk just normal moms that don't have like flower crowns that just talk about doing a large dose journey and what it meant for them.
And we really outlined reasons why a mom would want to take a large dose journey, and then we give you like. Things to look for in a guide and questions to ask when you hire someone. It's a really practical stuff. So I just, I always just leave encouraging any person who's interested in psychedelics just to stay curious and just take a little bit extra of a beat to just ask some larger questions and just do some research and then you will know if it's right for you or if it's not and it's okay if it's not.
Psychedelics are the shiny new thing right now and Obviously I think they can change the world, but I also know that they're not for everyone and it's okay if it doesn't call to you. So give yourself some slack and just find what's right for you.
[00:52:06] Sam Kabert: Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. It's definitely a lot there to discern and just see if it's right for you or not.
I actually will send you a copy of a book I wrote in the mail last week. Or last year in a weekend it's a workbook. It's called psychedelic compass kind to help to discern because that's another conversation we can talk offline, but talking more about how it's the wild West and toxic positivity.
This is a very one on one introductory podcast that is able to go in so many different layers. So Tracy, I won't keep you any longer. Thank you so much. And we'll see you again.
[00:52:40] Tracey Tee: Thank you very much. I enjoyed it.
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